Airline Pilot Career Workshop - Video Clip
Paula Williams
Welcome to our Airline Pilot Career Workshop. And we’re actually really happy to have Captain Dave Santo with us and we’ll introduce him in just a minute. But you know, one thing that I was taught while I was growing up is the best thing that you can do. If you’re looking at a career or anything else, is to find someone who is in that field, and ask them every question that you can think of. And we don’t really get that opportunity that much these days. It’s not like you can corner a, an airline pilot in when you see one in an airport and just ask him any question you can think of. So, we have one cornered now.
We have one cornered now. And Captain Dave is really, really good at what he does and he’s very open to, to answering questions. So, thank you for joining us. This webinar will be 45 minutes. We may run a little bit over to, depending on questions and things like that, we’ll try and get everybody answer to the best of our ability. We’ve got a lot of people on the line today from all over the world. Participants are muted, but you can submit questions by typing them into the chat window at any time. Most of the questions we have in the slideshow were submitted to us when you registered for this course.
So thank you for those questions. And we’re really glad that you’re here. Please put aside your distractions and grab a pen. Cuz you’re gonna wanna take notes. And make sure that you are paying full attention. Cuz like I said, we don’t get this opportunity as often as we would like!
So captain Dave, welcome. Thank you for joining us.
David Santo
Thank you, Paula. And thank you, John, for having me. It’s great to be with you.
Paula Williams
Excellent. So can you tell us a little bit about what you’ve been doing with U.S. air carriers. And I know you’ve worked in private aviation. And, and several other places. You’ve even flown gliders. So, you’ve got a wide variety of experience in aviation.
David Santo
Well, Paula thank you. In a nutshell yeah I started in gliders actually as a teenager. I had a job working at a Glider Port. What they call being a line boy which is young men and women who hook up the ropes and hold the wings for the glider during the launch. So, I’ve been doing that since I was 13. I came up through civilian aviation although I was very interested in the military it just didn’t end up being my path. And so in my pursuit of my career I’ve flown for on demand charter, I’ve flown air ambulance, cargo and corporate. I’ve flown small aircraft Cessna 206, 207 flying bank checks all the way up to 747-400s. Flying freight and currently I’m an A320 captain for a major U.S. airline.
Paula Williams
Well that’s fantastic it sounds like you’ve done pretty anything that can be done maybe with the exception of helicopters, that’s pretty much everything else. [LAUGH] And of course this session is, is sponsored by Aerostar Training Services. LSE and you’re one of the founders of that organization.
David Santo
I am, so, I have always kind of gravitated towards training. I’ve worked for a number of training departments and in a number of training capacities and when I had the opportunity to work as a found of Aerostar. An organization whose tagline is helping aviation career dreams take flight. That was very exciting for me and it’s been a privilege to be a part of trying to help others get high quality, low cost training on Air Buses and Boeing equipment. So, it’s been an exciting time in addition to my airline career to work with Aerostar.
Paula Williams
Fantastic. And like I said, this is a great opportunity for people you know, who may be interested in an airline career to really dig in and, and ask questions. And you know, you’re very open to, I think, just about anything. I think we got a whole bunch on the slide show, but there are lots of people may not have thought of.
So if you asked a question when you registered for this session it will probably be included in this presentation. And if we don’t have time to cover you’re question we’ll, we’ll reach out to you personally. So, some of the topics we’ll be covering, career paths salary, a lot of questions were about that.
Quality of life for pilots. And so on and we’ll start with some general information. We’ve got about four slides that you shared with me, Dave, about the market in general. This first slide is about the approximate number of pilots in the major US Airlines, and I know that is a topic of interest to lots of people.
David Santo
Yeah, there’s quite a few people of course in the airline industry right now, and the projection is for huge growth. Both domestic United States and of course around the world. In fact the largest growth is outside of the United States probably looking at Asia with something like 30.
5 to 39% of the growth over the next 20 years. There’s a lot of folks in this industry, there’s a lot of folks at different stages in the industry. And I try to focus on looking at the success stories. It’s not an easy career, it is a challenging career, it’s a very professional career.
But, there are a lot of people. I mean, look at these numbers. Thousands and thousands of people have made it to be airline pilots. If all of these folks can make it to be airline pilots, certainly anybody can who applies themselves, who work towards it. Now, I should be careful in saying anybody.
There are some innate skills that are required. There is some aptitude that is required. But, the vast majority of those people who really want this career, there is a pathway for success. And that’s what you’re seeing with
these numbers. There’s just huge numbers of pilots, who’ve actually succeeded.
Paula Williams
Exactly. And growing from what I understand.
David Santo
And there’s a huge number that are retiring. Off the top of, of all of these numbers. So, you know, if you look at the number that are required, and some of the demographics of pilots retiring. And also the growth in the industry.
Paula Williams
It’s just a huge opportunity right now.
David Santo
Well that’s exactly right. And so, one of the things we have to look at that’s very exciting. Is the growth opportunity out ahead of this over the next 20 years. There are some that will look in the rear view mirror and they see the past 20 years, and they try to say that the next 20 will look a lot like the, the last 20.
And that is absolutely wrong. In the last 20 years, we went through a huge downturn and, and kind of a, a lull in the aviation industry. The, this was precipitated by September 11th and the economic downtown and the housing bubble here in the US. Now, you’re seeing kind of a hiring tsunami.
Because, the airline industries are picking up. All of the major airlines are making money. All of the major airlines are hiring. And at the same time, there hasn’t been a lot of hiring in the past 20 years. So naturally, the people that were hired 20 years ago. They’re getting close to retirement.
Which means that it’s a double whammy for the industry, creating this hiring tsunami. A bunch of retirements and a lot of growth, means a lot of new opportunities for young men and women coming into the industry.
Paula Williams
Right. And I know one of the things that you’ve mentioned to me is that in this industry, seniority is, is everything or longevity is everything. And I think this this chart shows a lot about that, and I apologize for the quality of this. We it wasn’t the best screenshot, but I think the information is important enough that we just picked it up and used it.
David Santo
Yeah, but look at some of these numbers. I mean, wow. Let’s go out here to. This is major US Airlines, 8320 and similar first officers in the US. Let’s just pick a point on the ten year line. It’s more than $140, between $120 and $140 an hour.
How many jobs, professional careers, pay that kind of hourly wage? I mean, that’s pretty exciting stuff there. And if you want to do just kind of a rough average, if you, you anticipate that in a year a pilot will fly about. 1,000 hours in 12 months. That means that you could just take this number simply by 1,000.
So, if you’re making $120 an hour, it’s $120,000 a year income. That’s not including profit sharing, that’s not including 401K or retirements. So, anybody who says that this is not a lucrative career I challenge them to look at these numbers, it’s really exciting.
John Williams
So, you said they’ll fly about a 1,000 hours a year, so is this based on flight time or work time.
David Santo
It’s based on flight time John, so most airline pilots are paid based on some combination of the doors closed and the break released, or the doors closed and the aircraft begins to push back. And they are paid from that point until they part the airplane at the other end of the lane.
There is some time spent for example doing pre-flights and walk rounds that we currently industry standard, don’t get paid for.
Paula Williams
Right, but the average is still pretty good. One thing I wanted to point out is there’s a huge difference between year 1 and year 5. So, you know, a lot of people that get into this industry feel that maybe the entry level pay is not what they would be hoping for. You know, especially considering you know, that some of them have accrued some debt in their education and things. So they’re taking a job in year one that may not be what they had been hoping for, but if you look at the difference between year one and year five. You know, in some cases it’s you know, between, it would take just the line for American Airlines, you know, from 65 to 125, actually more like close to 135 within the first five years.
David Santo
Yeah, that’s exciting news, but even if you look at the entry level, the average there of the airlines is somewhere between 60 and $75 an hour.
Paula Williams
Right.
David Santo
So a starting income at 60 to $75,000 a year.
Paula Williams
Mm-hm.
David Santo
That’s still, when you look at the how that ranks with entry level jobs in America, I would say that that is nothing to sneeze at.
Paula Williams
Right, I mean, you look at doctors that have their internships and everything else. And I mean, they go further in debt usually in their first couple of years of work as opposed to starting to have a lifestyle that is a little post-college [LAUGH] which is nice
David Santo
We have to in all fairness, what happens in the career path is most pilots come out of college and they either flight instruct or they work as a flight instructor until they get a job with a commuter or a regional airline to build their time. So it’s not unlike a doctor in the fact that there is kind of this internship this time after college, but before you get on with a major US airline there is that time interval in the industry, and that time interval is becoming shorter, and shorter because of the demand.
So what we’re seeing in the airlines is people are, are post college. About three years, some five years are able to make that leap into the major airline. Well, if you graduate at 22 and you make the leap by 25 to 27. You’re looking at a lot of longevity, and if you do the math on these tables, you’re talking about millions of dollars worth of lifetime earnings, to get over there and get that seniority started as soon as possible.
Paula Williams
Great, exactly, and then this next one is rates of pay as a 12 year captain. So this is kind of the the pinnacle of that arc and Dave, I know this is probably what everybody is, is looking toward. They want to be that experienced captain that has control over his life gets to choose his routes, gets to choose his planes gets to choose, you know, a lot of things based on seniority.
David Santo
Let’s talk about the 12 year captain because that confuses some people.
Paula Williams
Okay.
David Santo
12 years means 12 years longevity from new hire. So if you are a new hire into the airline at 27. And you make captain ten years later at 37. You are a 10 year captain. It’s not like you do your first officer for 10 years, and then you start over as a first year captain, that’s not the way this table reads. It’s a captain with 12 years total longevity with the company. So if you look at a 12 year captain, and, and you were to upgrade within 12 years, which I think is pretty reasonable right now within the major US airlines. You’re looking at being what, 39 years old and you’re, if you look at this line all of the airlines are hovering right around that $200 an hour level.
So you take that times 1000 hours a year, it’s $200,000 a year in in pay. That’s not including profit sharing, retirement all the other benefits. So for the nay sayers that are out there, and they, they are, they’re on the blogs and they’re on the websites, that say this isn’t this isn’t the way it is.
This is what the current airline industry pay is, it’s gone up a lot over the last few years. And I mean, that’s, if that doesn’t excite somebody with a return on investment. You make $200,000 a year before year 40.
Paula Williams
Mm-hm.
David Santo
So let’s just run the math, you’ve got 25 years left, at $200,000 a year. Well, every ten years you’re making $2 million, so you’re making $6 million from the time you’re 40, until you’re 64. That is not a bad earnings, especially when you look at you’re getting no less than 12, and more likely at this point in your career 15 days off per month.
Paula Williams
Great, and just to explain some of the, the letters and numbers at the bottom of this chart. That’s the airline and then the aircraft type so, you know, if you’re kind of debating between aircraft types, it looks like the pay is really, really similar between an A320 family or a V737 family aircraft.
It’s just a, a question of which airline and, and where in the world you want to fly.
David Santo
And, and I agree with that, that’s right. The, the A320, the Airbus, and the Boeing fleets are narrow bodies.
So a lot of the narrow bodies are very closely tied together. When you start getting into the wide bodies you start seeing a little bit more variance because of the size of the airplane, but this is a narrow body captain. This isn’t even your gross earning potential, and if you’re at American, if you’re at Delta, if you’re at United, this isn’t even looking at what wide-body captains make.
Again, gross earning potential is well above this if you go to an airline that has widebodies.
Paula Williams
So you could take one step above this, and we don’t have that chart, but you know, that would be a a, a difference of possibly I don’t know if you know the numbers off the top of your head for a wide body captain, but what the rate would be for that?
David Santo
You know, and I don’t know those numbers off the top of my head, I would anticipate it being about $50 to $75 an hour more.
Plus international override. So you’re looking at north of 250, close to $300 a hour. So you know, close to $300,000 a year, with the international override gross earnings.
Paula Williams
Right, that makes perfect sense. All right one more slide and then we will start to get into the, the questions and this is kind of about the quality of life. The sick vacation and, and PTO, which is part time off, or paid time off.
And most of them have some combination of sick and vacation time available. And looks like Jet Blue’s the only one that does the paid time off, which means you could use it for either, that time that you have?
David Santo
Yeah, I think that’s what the chart is reflecting.
Paula Williams
Okay, excellent. So you know, a lot of people are concerned about the flexibility that you have as an airline pilot. And it looks like you get quite a bit of, of, of vacation and personal time with most of these airlines. And, of course, then you also have the benefit of being able to go somewhere to suspended right.
David Santo
Well, that’s absolutely right. I mean, the career I’ve heard a lot of people say well, you know, the career isn’t as glamorous as it used to be. It’s no longer the days of PANAM and TWA and I would agree with them. However the earning potential, the quality of life the effort that’s been made by the professional pilot organizations to refine the quality of life, this is just a great profession to get into.
And it’s getting even better. So, you know, I have to laugh sometimes and pinch myself. Because here I’m already getting 12 to 15 days off every month. Which is in most occupations completely unheard of, making a six figure income, and then I get to take vacation. So if I want to combine my vacation, I can take one, sometimes as much as two months off.
In addition to my 12 to 15 days off per month. So I would say that the flexibility, the quality of life, the pay, the airline industry, if you have a passion for flying, it’s the whole package. But it’s got a lot of variables, and those variables are gonna be based on where you live.
Whether you have to commute to work or whether you can be reside in a base. Residing in a base means that your days off, you’re not commuting, increases your quality of life. There are so many variables here to make airline industry even better for you. But I think if you showed this to most people outside the aviation industry, they would be wow.
Now, there’s a reason why we get this. We’re gone away from our families a lot, so on the 15 days that we work per month, or 18 days, depending on your schedule, you’re gone away from home. A significant portion of that if you don’t live in base.
And so the airlines recognize that and they are trying to get you more time off at home with your family on the days you do have.
Paula Williams
Right, at home with your family, or you get to take your family some really cool places, because you can use some of those benefits. That most of the airlines have. And I, I know, Dave, you’ve taken some really fun vacations with your family.
David Santo
Well I have. I mean, every, every yeah we take family vacations, we use our travel privileges. And then the airlines reciprocate. It’s a program called fares where you can fly on other airlines. At a significantly reduced cost on standby. Now it’s standby, and that discourages some people.
But I’ll tell you what, we’ve had some great adventures, that we would have never been able to, really do or justify, had I not been in the airline industry. We’ve gone to Europe. We’ve gone all over Europe. We’ve gone to, Central and South America. And, I think that’s just a wonderful benefit.
I, I was just sharing before this program that my daughter, who has travel privileges, was able to do a weekend trip to, to Texas, to visit a girlfriend. Those types of opportunities that your family gets to enjoy is really priceless. I’ll share one more with you in a previous job I got hired with a major US legacy carrier and I wasn’t even out of initial training yet.
When my mom and dad decided to take a trip to Paris, France. To, it was a pretty proud moment for me that my mom and dad finally got to reap a little bit of the reward of helping me to pursue my aviation career.
Paula Williams
That’s fantastic. That’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? I mean, to have those moments with your, your family when you can do what everybody wants to do and, and make everybody happy, so. That doesn’t happen very often. [LAUGH].
David Santo
Well, when sometimes at the airline industry because it’s so readily available to us, we, we sometimes take it for granted. And we don’t talk about that being a benefit, but it certainly is. If you’re a person who likes to travel. And if you’re a person who doesn’t want to sit at a desk job, nine to five, Monday through Friday, grinding it out in front of a computer or a phone.
This is an occupation that allows you to do a lot of travelling, work flexible hours. See a lot of the world and get a lot of cool benefits.